A CF50 (C320) in France

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Honda 60-70's
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Bezit: CZ100 1965 - CF50 (C320) 1967 - Amigo 1974 - C50M 1974 - Dax ST70 1974
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A CF50 (C320) in France

Bericht door Honda 60-70's » 14 sep 2017 14:04

Hello from France !
I am sorry to have to speak in English as I don't speak your language, I can also speak French if you prefer, just tell me.
I didn't found the part of the forum where I can make a presentation, if you can help me ?

I am restoring a CF50 1967, that's was the name used in France for the well-known C320, with engine C321. I have a problem with the front fork, is it the right place for asking some help and post pictures ?

Thanks :wink:
Patrick
CZ100 1965 - CF50 (C320) 1967 - Amigo 1974 - C50M 1974 - Dax ST70 1974

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stoterstangen90
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Re: A CF50 (C320) in France

Bericht door stoterstangen90 » 14 sep 2017 14:20

Welcome,

You can make your presentation right here.
Afbeelding

Afbeelding

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Honda 60-70's
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Bezit: CZ100 1965 - CF50 (C320) 1967 - Amigo 1974 - C50M 1974 - Dax ST70 1974
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Re: A CF50 (C320) in France

Bericht door Honda 60-70's » 14 sep 2017 17:51

OK, thanks, so I am Patrick, living in Lyon (France), now retired and restoring my Honda bikes from the 60's and 70's. I have a website (http://www.honda60-70s.net) and I am administrator of a forum dedicated to these bikes : http://www.cb500four.com

Forum's members and I are more and more interested by 50cc Honda of the era and I found last year a CF50 1967, 1 owner since new and 14 000 original kilometres. Here is a picture of the bike with its 1st owner :

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The CF50 is a mystery for us as it is in fact a C320S (C321 ?) made in Alost. Why and who has chosen this name for the French market ? Very strange as Honda Japan will use this "CF50 type" some years later for the Chaly ! :shock:

I had a problem to remove the chromed tube on the front fork, on the parts-list this part seemed to be threaded with lugs for unscrewing it :

Afbeelding


No lugs and very hard to move this part on my fork :

Afbeelding


Luckily I found the solution today with the help of a lot of WD40 and after heating the tube :

Afbeelding

Afbeelding


I am now searching for some parts, it seems to be very hard to find gasket sets for this C321 engine ?
Do you know where I can find these with good quality ?

Thanks in advance for your help :wink:
Laatst gewijzigd door Honda 60-70's op 15 sep 2017 12:29, 1 keer totaal gewijzigd.
Patrick
CZ100 1965 - CF50 (C320) 1967 - Amigo 1974 - C50M 1974 - Dax ST70 1974

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wim V8
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Re: A CF50 (C320) in France

Bericht door wim V8 » 14 sep 2017 19:25


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butt head
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Re: A CF50 (C320) in France

Bericht door butt head » 14 sep 2017 20:15

gaskets, you can still get at the above standing addresses.

the chrome buses on the fork that are going to be very hard to get.
ik praat niet alleen maar poep


bami = bami. troep = troep.

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Re: A CF50 (C320) in France

Bericht door Honda 60-70's » 15 sep 2017 08:54

Thanks, I knew these website but CMS has nothing about gaskets, 4taktwinkel and viertaktschuur has very few gaskets, leertouwer has the most complete set : http://www.leertouwer.com/default.asp?i ... doorzoeken.
Do you know if the quality of this set is OK, I generally use only Vesrah or Noboru gasket set ?

An other question : is there a screw at the bottom of the fork legs in the aim to dismantle them ?
Patrick
CZ100 1965 - CF50 (C320) 1967 - Amigo 1974 - C50M 1974 - Dax ST70 1974

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wim V8
The 4T-MSB is my life!
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Bezit: Super 100 '12 (daily driver)
Bitri 200 '57 (sachs-engine rebuilding)
C321 (sleeping project).
Novio '74 (sleeping project.)
PC50 '68. daily driver.

Re: A CF50 (C320) in France

Bericht door wim V8 » 15 sep 2017 19:59

The quality of parts from leertouwer is almost always oke.

No there is no screw because then you should see it on the drawing.
I think you should do something with part 8, 18 and maybe 10.
Do you have screw 24 already out?

Gr. Wim.

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Re: A CF50 (C320) in France

Bericht door Honda 60-70's » 17 sep 2017 17:27

Thanks wim, unfortunately the parts-list is showing the 1st model of front fork, the model fitted on CF50 seems to be the same than the one fitted on SS50 1966, 1st model sold in France in the same time than the CF50.

After heating at 120°C + 2 days with a lot of WD40, the 2nd chrome tube is quite easily dismantled :

Afbeelding


After cleaning, the bottom cases seem near perfect but there are lot of scratch and rusted points, so they will be sandblasted and painted new :

Afbeelding


After exam I see that the chrome tubes were glued on the bottom cases :

Afbeelding

Afbeelding

Afbeelding


These bottom cases are very different from those on the parts-list, this is a picture from CMS parts-list of a C320 original bottom case with the thread at the top for fixing the chrome tube :

Afbeelding


The fork type fitted to the CF50 is, I think, very near from the S90 or the SS50 1° model, sold in 1966.On the SS50 CMS parts-list, I don't see how to dismantle the pipes : https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists ... 1_3dd9.gif :?:

And I don't see too on these parts-list these screws under the bottom cases :

Afbeelding

Afbeelding


If somebody knows how to dismantle these pipes ! :oops: :mrgreen:
Patrick
CZ100 1965 - CF50 (C320) 1967 - Amigo 1974 - C50M 1974 - Dax ST70 1974

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Klaas
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Re: A CF50 (C320) in France

Bericht door Klaas » 18 sep 2017 09:57

Indeed you have the later type front fork which has not the screw bushes.
Why would you want to lossen the screw at the bottom?
If you dismantled the pipes from the cases that is all you need to do for a revision.
I think the screws are fitted for the die casting of the aluminium and do nothing.
Just clean the aluminium fork parts and paint them.
So to see are the pipes in good condition so new oil seals and reassemble the parts again.

All types from the C320 (TS50DX has only thicker pipes) are the same and normally they are in such better
condition then for example SS50 because of the chrome covers.
The rear suspension is mostly more of a challenge becasue they are weak and mostly all have oil leakage. :D

Suc6

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wim V8
The 4T-MSB is my life!
Berichten: 1517
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Bezit: Super 100 '12 (daily driver)
Bitri 200 '57 (sachs-engine rebuilding)
C321 (sleeping project).
Novio '74 (sleeping project.)
PC50 '68. daily driver.

Re: A CF50 (C320) in France

Bericht door wim V8 » 18 sep 2017 16:06

Klaas schreef:Indeed you have the later type front fork which has not the screw bushes.
Why would you want to lossen the screw at the bottom?
If you dismantled the pipes from the cases that is all you need to do for a revision.
I think the screws are fitted for the die casting of the aluminium and do nothing.
Just clean the aluminium fork parts and paint them.
So to see are the pipes in good condition so new oil seals and reassemble the parts again.

All types from the C320 (TS50DX has only thicker pipes) are the same and normally they are in such better
condition then for example SS50 because of the chrome covers.
The rear suspension is mostly more of a challenge becasue they are weak and mostly all have oil leakage. :D

Suc6
Hij vraagt zich juist af hoe hij de binnen vorkpoten uit de buiten vorkpoten krijgt.

Gr. Wim.

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Re: A CF50 (C320) in France

Bericht door Honda 60-70's » 18 sep 2017 18:37

On big Honda bikes (250 to 750) of the era, the Allen screws under the bottom cases have to be unscrewed to dismantle the pipes.

This is not the case with this CF50 fork, a friend of my forum said that on his CG125 the pipes are maintained only by the circlip and the oil seal, you have to beat down the case from the pipe in the aim to extract the oil seal and the pipe !

I tried like this but no result, but I dare not shoot too hard !

I want to dismantle the pipes from the cases in the aim to fit new oil seals :wink:
Patrick
CZ100 1965 - CF50 (C320) 1967 - Amigo 1974 - C50M 1974 - Dax ST70 1974

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Klaas
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Re: A CF50 (C320) in France

Bericht door Klaas » 18 sep 2017 18:42

Ah. Well indeed just like a lot of types there is a circlip you have to remove and really hit hard.
The older the seal the nastier he gets loose.
But i don't think the seals have to be renewed or did there leak oil?
If the pipes are rusted and damaged normally you have to change the seals, but these look in good condition.
Does your fork have circlips burried under the grease?
Also look for the diameter from the pipes to buy the corrrect ones.
I had once has a fork where the pipes where 2mm thicker. Probably from a S90 or somewhat type.

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Bezit: CZ100 1965 - CF50 (C320) 1967 - Amigo 1974 - C50M 1974 - Dax ST70 1974
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Re: A CF50 (C320) in France

Bericht door Honda 60-70's » 18 sep 2017 18:51

Thanks Klaas, so you confirm it is the right method for dismantling the pipes ?
Just remove the circlip and hit hard ?

The oil seals are 50 years old and they leak a little oil. The pipes are in good condition, the measurements are within the tolerances.

Stunningly the rear shocks are perfect, no leaks ! :mrgreen:
Patrick
CZ100 1965 - CF50 (C320) 1967 - Amigo 1974 - C50M 1974 - Dax ST70 1974

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wim V8
The 4T-MSB is my life!
Berichten: 1517
Lid geworden op: 30 aug 2013 17:43
Bezit: Super 100 '12 (daily driver)
Bitri 200 '57 (sachs-engine rebuilding)
C321 (sleeping project).
Novio '74 (sleeping project.)
PC50 '68. daily driver.

Re: A CF50 (C320) in France

Bericht door wim V8 » 18 sep 2017 19:27

Or the rear shocks are already empty. (after 50 years)

Gr. Wim.

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Klaas
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Re: A CF50 (C320) in France

Bericht door Klaas » 18 sep 2017 20:09

I always put the aluminium part in the bank screw (with protective beaks)
and jank on the pipe. Sometimes you fall behind if it gets loose :D , but always works.

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